Hello, i am new and have some problematic questions

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Photios
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Hello, i am new and have some problematic questions

Post by Photios » Sat May 02, 2009 10:14 am

Greetings,
I've been thinking for a lot of time now of converting to the Catholic Faith.
Something that has always kept from taking the final step was what I learned on the Church's troubled history with Jews and other people's of the world.
I was raised in Palestine by Zionists (who today like to call themselves "Secular Jews") and technically I am Jewish, even though I don’t observe the Jewish Religion.
As a person who's considered a Jew I'd like to know –
a. why is the Church is so often associated with anti-Semitism. I know the term is troublesome, because some of the theologians and thinkers who are often accused of being anti-Semitic were Semitic themselves. (like Ephram the Syrian)
Attacking Judaism as a religion is understandable, after reading big portions of the Talmud I often find myself at unease, but why attacking the Jews as an ethnic group? (the question if they are indeed an ethinc group is another topic, but obviously this is a view that the Chuch accepts) When teaching about the crucifixion – why not say that the Pharisees (the Rabbinic precursors) were partly responsible, along with the Romans of course, instead of simply saying "The Jews" (the apostles were Jewish, were they also to blame?)
Some people say here that the Pope assisted the Nazis during WW2 (the more moderate people say that he simply chose to ignore in order to see the Jews perish) why do people say it?
b. If the church is guided by the Holy Ghost, then why through out history so many bad things were done by the Church and by its name (like persecuting Jews and the sack of Constantinople and establishing the Latin Empire on the territory)
c. As Someone who is considered Jewish, will I'll be welcome in the Church?
Sorry for being blunt by some of these statements, it by no means out of disrespect, but on the contrary - I honestly wish to understand better, I'll also understand If you are to chose not to post my questions.
Best regards,
P.S - I Think you are doing a magnificent job in maintaining this website, it is very important.

savvy
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Re: Hello, i am new and have some problematic questions

Post by savvy » Mon May 11, 2009 10:40 pm

Hi Photios,

I will do my best to answer your questions.

a. Antisemitism is indirectly and undeniably also anti-Christian. Christianity as we know it is basically Judeo-Christianity. The roots of our faith are Jewish. You can't kill a tree without cutting it's roots. If I wanted to destroy Christianity a clever way to do so would be to stirke out what's profoundly Jewish about it and replace it with something else.

The Church is made up of both saints and sinners. G.K. Chesterton once remarked "There's something wrong with a man who does not want to break the ten commandments".

David committed adultery, Moses killed a man, Joseph's brothers tried to kill him etc. The human story is one of sin and redemption. On closer inspection our story is also His-story . The story of Christ.

About the crucifixtion: No one person can be singled out for the death of Christ. It was an atonement for sin. The Cathecism of the Council of Trent in the 16th century stated :

"Besides, to increase the dignity of this mystery, Christ not only suffered for sinners, but even for those who were the very authors and ministers of all the torments He endured. Of this the Apostle reminds us in these words addressed to the Hebrews: Think diligently upon him that endured such opposition from sinners against himself; that you be not wearied, fainting in your minds. In this guilt are involved all those who fall frequently into sin; for, as our sins consigned Christ the Lord to the death of the cross, most certainly those who wallow in sin and iniquity crucify to themselves again the Son of God, as far as in them lies, and make a mockery of Him. This guilt seems more enormous in us than in the Jews, since according to the testimony of the same Apostle: If they had known it, they would never have crucified the Lord of glory; while we, on the contrary, professing to know Him, yet denying Him by our actions, seem in some sort to lay violent hands on him."

The Second Vatican Council simply re-iterated this. Everytime a heresy becomes widespread, it becomes necessary to re-state it.
The term "deicide" or Jews as God-killers was coined by a church father called Marcion, He also held the theory that there were 2 God's. The good God of the New Testament and the bad God of the Old Testament. He was excommunicated and later defected to a rival Gnostic Christian sect.

About the war-time Pope: Pave the Way Foundation is an organization that investigates the Vatican's World War 2 Archives. The founders are Jewish. They would report to the Holocaust Museum in Jerusalem once the investigation is complete. I would encourage you to take a look at it.


http://www.ptwf.org/Projects/Education/ ... %20XII.htm

b. Yes, the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit, but it does not teach that it's people are not indefectible. Even Jesus chose a bad disciple, Judas. Ten of the disciples deserted him. What is really amazing regarding the bad popes is that they stayed silent of issues of faith and morals. They could have defined all kinds of crazy doctrines in the name of their teaching authority, but they didn't. These bad popes did not define any doctrines. Not only will God direct popes in their teaching, but He'll also shut them up about dumb (heretical) teaching too. Around 12 out of 266 Popes were morally corrupt.

The Catholic Church runs more schools, hospitals, nursing homes, orphanages, homeless sheleters, soup kitchens, preganancy crisis centres than any organization on planet earth. It's the world's largest charitable institution with the most number of volunteers.

c. Yes, absolutely. The Association of Hebrew Catholics helps Jewish converts to the faith.

http://hebrewcatholic.org/

I hope this answers your questions. I wish you the best in wherever God may be leading you . Whether it may be to stay a faithful follower of Judaism or somewhere else.

Ariel
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Re: Hello, i am new and have some problematic questions

Post by Ariel » Tue May 12, 2009 4:28 pm

Welcome Photios and thanks for that reply Savvy.

Apologies for the slow replies from this side Photios, with the papal visit to Israel this week things are pretty crazy.

In any case, yes you are most definitely welcome in the Church (though surely you will also run into people who are not the most understanding or sympathetic to your personal journey, unfortunately). The AHC can help you and so can we. Hopefully you will find resources on our site that can help you. You are also most welcome to post any questions on this forum, and we will do our best to help you.

God bless you on your journey!

Ariel
“God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks to us in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: It is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world” C.S. Lewis

Photios
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Re: Hello, i am new and have some problematic questions

Post by Photios » Wed May 13, 2009 10:05 am

Savvy – Thank you so much for providing such a detailed explanation in your answer (and also thank you for the links)
I still have a lot to learn and there are a few insights you wrote that really made me think (Chesterton, by the way, is one of my favorite authors, I just recently finished "The Man who was Thursday)
It’s a bit hard for me to understand Chesterton apologetics – like Orthodoxy – so if you know some more apologetical treatises that are intellectually challenging please recommend me on something (I have read a bit of C.S Lewis, but I want books that deals with the Catholic faith)
And again, thank you.

Ariel – no need to apologize, Thank you for your kindness and for letting me use the forum. I appreciate that you have the patience to read the things I ask and taking the time to answer me.

savvy
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Re: Hello, i am new and have some problematic questions

Post by savvy » Thu May 14, 2009 7:06 pm

Hi Again Portios,

Your Welcome and Glad I was able to help. Here's a list of a few books I would recommend.

1. The Everlasting Man -G.K. Chesterton (This is a much easier read than Orthodoxy)

2. Catholic Christianity- Peter Kreeft

3. Paradoxes of Catholicism - Robert Hugh Benson

4. Letters to a Young Catholic - George Weigel (highly Recommended)

Ariel: Good job on this website.

Photios
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Re: Hello, i am new and have some problematic questions

Post by Photios » Thu May 14, 2009 8:39 pm

savvy wrote:
3. Paradoxes of Catholicism - Robert Hugh Benson

4. Letters to a Young Catholic - George Wigel (highly Recommended)
These two in particular sounds very interesting and intriguing books,
Thank you!

savvy
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Re: Hello, i am new and have some problematic questions

Post by savvy » Thu May 14, 2009 11:44 pm

These two in particular sounds very interesting and intriguing books,
Thank you!
No Problem, and I found the entire book "Paradoxes of Catholicism" online here

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/16309/16309-8.txt

Photios
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Re: Hello, i am new and have some problematic questions

Post by Photios » Sat May 16, 2009 4:48 am

savvy wrote:

No Problem, and I found the entire book "Paradoxes of Catholicism" online here

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/16309/16309-8.txt
Thanks for the link!

mikemac
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Re: Hello, i am new and have some problematic questions

Post by mikemac » Fri May 22, 2009 11:33 pm

Hi Photios

First I want to say God bless you in your decision.

As a non-Jewish Catholic I have learned much about Pope Pius XII from this thread myself, thanks to savvy and Ariel. In other forums when people say that Pope Pius XII was a German collaborator I usually post that on his death Golda Meir thanked Pope Pius XII for what he did during WWII. But now I'll post the link to Pave the Way Foundation that savvy posted here.

Today when I was looking for Golda Meir's quote about Pope Pius XII I found this web page with her quote as well as quotes from Leonard Bernstein, Albert Einstein and other Jews thanking Pope Pius XII and the Church for the work they did in trying to save Jews during WWII.
http://www.catholicleague.org/pius/truth.htm

While looking for Golda Meir's quote this essay titled 'A Righteous Gentile: Pope Pius XII and the Jews' written by Rabbi David Dalin also came up with the search.
http://www.catholicleague.org/pius/dalinframe.htm

Rabbi David Dalin also wrote the book titled 'The Myth of Hitler's Pope'.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=qAmKnon ... =3#PPP1,M1

The Catholic League has quite a few articles on Pope Pius XII and the Holocaust.
http://www.catholicleague.org/pius.php

God bless
Mike

savvy
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Re: Hello, i am new and have some problematic questions

Post by savvy » Sat May 23, 2009 5:17 pm

Thanks Mike for that information. I am working on a Newspaper Archive from World War 2, that deal with articles on the relationship with the Catholic Church . So, far I have a collection of articles from the New York Times. There are other Newspaper archives that will follow this. I'll post the link when it's ready.

mikemac
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Re: Hello, i am new and have some problematic questions

Post by mikemac » Mon May 25, 2009 9:48 pm

I'll be looking forward to that savvy.

I find it interesting that the top video on the Pave the Way Foundation web site that you posted above says it's being investigated now that according to one account the KGB was behind the 1963 novel/play called The Deputy (which is also known as The Representative and also made into a film called Amen). This is the video it's on,
http://www.barhama.com/PAVETHEWAY/5.html

The video also disputes John Cornwell's book titled Hitler's Pope as being academic dishonesty. Apparently that is why Rabbi David Dalin wrote his book titled 'The Myth of Hitler's Pope'. Good stuff.

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Re: Hello, i am new and have some problematic questions

Post by K.jerome » Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:47 pm

Hi,

I think denominations or Church leaders are not going to be a major factor for getting Salvation. Accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour is important and doing His will is more important. In Matthew 7:21-23, it is written that if a person after accepting Jesus Christ does not do the Will of the father he/she will not enter the Kingdom of God. Many Church leaders themselves may not enter the Kingdom of God as what most of us do are for earthly kingdom, whereas Jesus Christ said that His kingdom is not of this World. So please don't let earthly factors to delay your decision to become a Christian. Even if you are not a Church leader, even as LAITY you can do so many things to bring people to the true God.

In God we trust.

(K.Jerome)

Chaim
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Re: Hello, i am new and have some problematic questions

Post by Chaim » Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:55 pm

And what about synagogues around the world ?

http://www.jpeopleworld.com/index.php?d ... ry&cs=3005

:mrgreen:
All you need and want to know about Jewish religion and communities around the world.

http://www.jpeopleworld.com/

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