Page 2 of 2

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:36 pm
by Ariel
great, thanks Hadassah!

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:08 am
by Gerat Tzedek
There is NO SUCH THING as merely Mosaic Judaism, because Torah contains in Deuteronomy 17 the prescription for going to the Torah teachers for resolution.

8 If cases come before your courts that are too difficult for you to judge—whether bloodshed, lawsuits or assaults—take them to the place the LORD your God will choose. 9 Go to the priests, who are Levites, and to the judge who is in office at that time. Inquire of them and they will give you the verdict. 10 You must act according to the decisions they give you at the place the LORD will choose. Be careful to do everything they direct you to do. 11 Act according to the law they teach you and the decisions they give you. Do not turn aside from what they tell you, to the right or to the left. 12 The man who shows contempt for the judge or for the priest who stands ministering there to the LORD your God must be put to death. You must purge the evil from Israel. 13 All the people will hear and be afraid, and will not be contemptuous again.

This is the passage Jesus is referring to when he admonishes his followers that the Pharisees sit in the seat of Moses and DO AND OBSERVE EVERYTHING THEY TEACH in Matthew 23:1-3. He isn't making up something new, but reaffirming something already established in Torah.

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:29 pm
by mikemac
I would like to ask a question about Gerat Tzedek's post without offending anyone. I say this because I am not a Catholic Jew, unless you consider me an Israelite because of my Milesian genealogy (Milesius was a descendant of Jacob).

My question is about Gerat's reference to Matthew 23. I use the Douay-Rheims Bible and would like to post verses 1 to 8 from Matthew 23 to ask my question.
1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, 2 Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses. 3 All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not; for they say, and do not. 4 For they bind heavy and insupportable burdens, and lay them on men's shoulders; but with a finger of their own they will not move them. 5 And all their works they do for to be seen of men. For they make their phylacteries broad, and enlarge their fringes.

6 And they love the first places at feasts, and the first chairs in the synagogues, 7 And salutations in the market place, and to be called by men, Rabbi. 8 But be not you called Rabbi. For one is your master; and all you are brethren.
Like Gerat says, in Matthew 23 Jesus is telling the multitudes and His disciples to observe and do whatsoever the scribes and the Pharisees say to you.

But then Jesus says according to the scribes and the Pharisees works, do not do.

This seems like kind of a contradiction, unless it means this, correct me if I am wrong. Is Jesus telling the multitudes and his disciples to observe what the scribes and the Pharisees say but just don't do what the scribes and the Pharisees do because they do it to be seen of men (phylacteries broad and to be called Rabbi)? Am I understanding this correct?

The Douay-Rheims Bible describes the word phylacteries in verse 5 as "that is, parchments, on which they wrote the ten commandments, and carried them on their foreheads before their eyes: which the Pharisees affected to wear broader than other men; so to seem more zealous for the law."


Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:55 am
by Ariel
I don't see it as a contradiction at all. Do we not often encounter real life situations where someone may have a legitimate authority but where his character is not worthy of his office? If your boss displays moral weakness or even hypocrisy, this does not mean that you should disobey him when he represents his company or communicates its policy.

So the fact that there were hypocritical pharisees (just as there are hypocritical religious leaders today) does not mean that the whole authority structure loses its validity and legitimacy.


Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:48 pm
by mikemac
Okay I can understand that Ariel.

So does that mean a Catholic Jew will attend a Catholic church for the Eucharist and then a Synagogue for say the festival of Purim or Hanukkah?

No offense, just trying to understand this.


Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:23 pm
by Ariel
why not? Understanding and experiencing Purim and Hanukkah is not only part of the Catholic Jew's heritage, but it would enrich the faith of any (gentile) Catholic as well.

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:46 am
by Gerat Tzedek
It is more than simply going to a synagogue for Purim or Hanukah. It means accepting Rabbinical interpretations of the Law with regards to how to observe Shabbat, how to keep kosher, how to observe family purity, and all the holy days and fast days.

For example, scripture says we are not to kindle a flame on the Sabbath, but it takes the rabbis to inform us that this includes throwing an electrical switch. Most people don't even stop to think that the combustion engine in a car is a fire, much less stop to think about modern electricity.

Another example would be that Scripture tells us not to boil a kid in its mother's milk. It takes the rabbis to explain this means not to mix meat and dairy. And it takes the rabbis to rule that we will not even mix meat with fowl, lest people become confused.

You need to understand that the Jew, albeit a Catholic, is part of another community, Israel. Indeed, Israel is his PRIMARY community. He was born into Israel BEFORE he was baptised into the Church.